Summary: Join Institute for God professors Jeff Sherrod, Laurie Kagay and headmaster Gregg Garner as they explore the issue of loneliness among college students, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. They emphasize the importance of feeling seen and heard, integrating into community, and recognizing cultural values to combat isolation. They discuss the limitations of social media in addressing loneliness and highlight the need for self-awareness and denial of self in becoming effective disciples of Jesus. The importance of finding belonging and community through a shared identity as children of God is stressed, along with the role of Christian colleges in preparing students to help others in various communities. Listeners are encouraged to engage with the podcast and share ideas for future topics.

S2E26: College Conversations Podcast - “Will College Cure My Loneliness?” (Transcript)

[00:00:10.69] - Jeff Sherrod

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to College Conversations. My name is Jeff Sherrod. I am joined by mr. Gregg Garner, the president of the Institute for GOD, and mrs. Laurie Kagay, who does our enrollment and our marketing here at the college. We try to in this podcast, we try to talk about those issues that affect college students, either coming into school, current college students, sometimes parents even of college students are looking. And I think even we've talked to even people who've been listening to College Conversations podcast, and they're like, love it. And I was like, what are you like? And they're like, I'm just a listener who loves this. So we love the general listeners out there too, and hope you guys are benefiting from it. One of the things that we try to do too, you know, try and talk about the issues that affect college students, you know, specifically, but sometimes that just means that we're talking about issues that are affecting people in general and then saying, alright. How does this look when this comes to people that are coming to college or dealing with college? So today, I kinda wanna do a little bit of a dive into, loneliness. As it as it relates to, college students. Other than and this is all self reported kinda stuff, but other than stress, loneliness is the number is the next highest thing that people report in terms of, like, mental health. So I had a few statistics I was gonna, read to you guys. So Gallup poll specifically targeting college students found that forty percent of, students reported that they felt lonely the previous day. So this places loneliness as the second major issue other than sixty six percent of them feeling stressed the previous day. A survey by the American Psychiatric Association, showed that thirty percent of adults age eighteen to thirty four, experience feelings of loneliness every day or several times a week, and they are, particularly affected by loneliness as compared to an older demographic. So it's much higher at that demographic. Certainly, COVID-19 has exacerbated feelings of loneliness among young adults, so a survey by Harvard's Making, Caring Common project found that sixty one percent of young people aged eighteen to twenty five reported serious loneliness and many indicating that no one had taken the time to generally ask how they were doing in recent weeks. And then lastly, a study, found that in college, sixty percent of women feel lonely compared to fifty four percent of men, highlighting that there's a gender disparity, even in how people experience loneliness. So, I know, Gregg, that you've done podcasts about this before, especially when thoughts, came out, and even mentioned. It's like even though we're dealing with the pandemic right now, this is gonna be something that we're dealing with for another decade, maybe even more. So, yeah, I just wanted to you know, I think maybe my question was, if someone's experiencing lonely loneliness and they're thinking, alright. I wanna do something about that. I want to maybe if I go to a Christian college, this is gonna be the way that I can deal with some of the loneliness. I'm gonna find friends. I'm gonna find some other stuff. If you're thinking if you guys hear a student like that and are like, I wanna try to find friends as a venue for the reason that they're choosing Christian colleges to combat loneliness, what do you think about this approach? You you're like, that's a great reason to go to a Christian college, or let's think about this maybe in a different way. What what's your what's your inclination?

[00:03:23.69] - Laurie Kagay

I don't think it's a bad approach. I think that I do hear that from students, even some recently. Some of the students we've had visit recently noted, like, man, it's nice to meet people like me, is kinda how they'll feel. Like, people who really care about God's word, maybe they feel alone in their current demographic of high school or wherever they are. And when they've been here, been around our students, they've noted, like, oh, you guys are, like, not just Christians on the face. You're you know, it continues. Like, your conversations have depth. I know a a recent visitor was like, they not only have depth. Like, are you guys gonna not only have faith in God, you have faith through in God, and you've gone through hard things. And, this one, she did in particular. She's like, I've gone through really hard things, but I've had a hard time, you know, just making maybe Christian friends who understood what I went through.

[00:04:17.30] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:04:19.10] - Laurie Kagay

I would say it’s just like a that way in high school. Like, I was kind of the the Christian kid, but I didn't have, like, a lot of friends who were that with me. And it did take some time, but I made a lot of my current friends that I have now in college. So I do think there's some, like, mixing up, you know, that happens in college. Like, you get surprised and you get exposed to new pools of people that you may share more in common with than you had before. So I don't I don't know that it's a bad approach. I think I don't think it's fail proof either. So I don't think because you go to college, you're gonna find

[00:04:55.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Or that it's automatic. Right?

[00:04:56.60] - Laurie Kagay

Yeah, right.

[00:04:57.10] - Jeff Sherrod

This is gonna be the right amount of time to be loneliness. Because there's certainly a lot of college students that also report loneliness. You know, they're in school, maybe even at Christian schools. I think that was one of the things I'm curious about. I don't have any research to back it up, but I wonder, you know, if secular students students at secular schools report loneliness different than at Christian schools. I'm not sure.

[00:05:17.10] - Gregg Garner

Mhmm.

[00:05:17.39] - Jeff Sherrod

But I have wondered. I'm wondering.

[00:05:18.80] - Gregg Garner

I'm interested in a definition. Like, how would you define loneliness?

[00:05:23.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Well, that's actually where I was gonna go with this. I was concerned, like, are we automatically saying that loneliness is bad? How do we understand loneliness from the Bible, and what does this mean compared to, like, just being alone?

[00:05:33.69] - Gregg Garner

Yeah because I think that distinction is important, the difference between being alone and being lonely.

[00:05:40.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Yeah. So if I'm thinking I'm interested in what you think about this too, Gregg. But if I'm thinking about loneliness, I'm thinking about that sense that someone has that their problems are just their problems, that they are they don't really have anyone to turn to when they have issues, and that they have to really face things more or less on their own. Maybe they have parents out there that could help them, but, like, they don't have a friend network that they could reach out to, easier. Where aloneness is, you know, like, a more physical reality. Like, I might be in the woods by myself hiking. I'm not necessarily lonely in that situation. Maybe that's self imposed. Right? You know, that's healthy for me to be alone at certain times. But where I think that we if I'm thinking about loneliness, I think about that as a negative trait. And I don't necessarily think about that with aloneness.

[00:06:30.39] - Gregg Garner

Which is interesting because if you go to the biblical account, the only thing in the creation narratives that God thinks is not good is that a person should be alone. So in your modern definition or defining and distinction, you're saying camping alone, you don't see it as a bad thing inherently, but then God's like, it's not good to be alone. So I do think we have to deal with the terminology.

[00:06:55.30] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:06:55.50] - Gregg Garner

Because I get what you're saying. It's a very popular sentiment for someone to say, I need my alone time. I need to recharge or whatever it is that they believe the alone time does with respect to benefit. And in the New Testament, we can see Jesus going to a place on his own to spend time with God, to recharge. So there's also biblical texts to identify that type of aloneness as not being bad, but you still have to contend with, and God said that it wasn't good that the guy that the person's alone. The man's alone. So this is not good. So that kind of aloneness there is within the context of the human experience to navigate the course of life. God's intention for this human being created in his image had an expectation that there he was put in this environment so that not only he could make the environment beautiful and productive, but also within that environment, community could be developed. And that's why the man's aloneness was not remedied by the technology provided in the animals for him to do his work more effectively, But instead, it was remedied by the giving of a woman so that together they could have a family. And then in turn, those families create communities. So in order for us to fulfill the vocational expectations from God, it's not gonna be good for us to go at it alone. This is something that we do with families and communities. But that's very different than what we're talking about with respect to an alone time to recharge, or even to spend alone with God. Whereas loneliness in the way you're talking about loneliness, I think we should start with it being a sense, like we have this feeling.

[00:08:50.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:08:52.29] - Gregg Garner

Right? I think we've all heard of people talking about being lonely in a crowded room. That you don't have to have any kind of external criteria in place to predicate loneliness. Instead, loneliness is like this subjective sense. And so, when it comes to that, one of your stats tried to give a qualifying consideration for loneliness in that nobody asked them

[00:09:20.39] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:09:20.60] - Gregg Garner

How they were doing. So in the biblical accounts, one of the ways that God responds to human need is by helping them to feel seen or heard. So some of the early texts, whether it's a book in the Torah, whether it's Genesis or Exodus, highlight certain characters that find themselves in very daft positions like Hagar

[00:09:45.20] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:09:45.60] - Gregg Garner

Who then, testifies to God being a God who sees her. Or you find a situation like Hannah's in where she's misunderstood even by the priesthood, but she feels that God is someone who hears her. So the Exodus account puts it all into place and says, not only is a God who sees and a God who hears, but he's a God who even knows, and what he knows is the suffering. So I think loneliness does have that negative connotation. And I think loneliness, in that case, can feel like a form of suffering. But in that communication that God has to Israel, this is now a community of people that are actually experiencing not being seen or heard.

[00:10:28.10] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Yeah. That's an interesting sense

[00:10:30.70] - Laurie Kagay

He can see and hear versus, like, a sense is when we're talking internally.

[00:10:36.89] - Gregg Garner

And and I think part of the cure to loneliness that anyone would recommend, in terms of counsel, is to help the person understand you are not alone.

[00:10:48.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:10:50.39] - Gregg Garner

Right? To end their overwhelming sense of bad related to that loneliness, you're letting them know, Hey, you're not alone. A psychologist who's also like a I don't know. Maybe he's a theologian, and and he uses scripture a lot. But I do like his work. I like especially when he does the psychology part of it. But, he has some really great statements in his work. His name is dr. Kurt Thompson. And, like, he has a statement that says that we all come into the world looking for someone looking for us. And he takes that from the Genesis account where the human beings created in the image of God are, you know, God's role in that whole thing and the way the narrative transpires is that he is looking for them. And whether or not they wanna be found is part of the dilemma. But nonetheless, we're all born in the world looking for someone to look for us. And then he goes into the psychology of how that affects, like, babies and adults and I think it's it's really good work. He also, has, another statement that he thinks is a really important one to communicate when it comes to people experiencing a form of suffering. And that's the basic communication that I'm not leaving the room, That that no matter what shame you feel, what whatever it is that's causing you to isolate, it's gonna be okay. Let's talk about it because I'm not leaving the room. So there's that that sense of comfort. And we get that in, the very last verse of the Gospel of Matthew, when Jesus is like, And look, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age.

[00:12:31.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:12:31.89] - Gregg Garner

So there is this incredible consolation that exists in God through his presence, so much so that even in the physical absence of Jesus, he's like, I'm not gonna leave you alone, but I'm sending you the comforter, I'm sending you the Holy Spirit. So that aloneness is not going to be an issue. But nonetheless, you can see how aloneness and loneliness, there's they still kind of, you know, rub elbows.

[00:12:54.79] - Jeff Sherrod

They do, yeah.

[00:12:55.39] - Gregg Garner

There's there's aspects of them there that I think are important for us to nuance so we can highlight what's good and what's bad about them. But at the same time, the initial remedy for loneliness has to be that the person realizes that they're seen, heard, that what they're going through, someone knows. And in that case, the person who is associating with them along those lines isn't gonna leave the room and is going to be with them despite whatever shame or guilt that they carry. There's no need to disintegrate or isolate.

[00:13:33.60] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:13:33.89] - Gregg Garner

But they can still be part of.. so I think when we think of loneliness, we might focus on the individual rather because we're looking at the problem. But part of ending loneliness is the integration into community.

[00:13:45.29] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm. That's right, yeah.

[00:13:46.20] - Gregg Garner

Right? So I think an individual needs and has that sense of need to be like, I wanna be seen, and I wanna be heard, and I wanna be known. Where I think it gets interesting is when they wanna be seen, heard, known to such a degree that no one could be like them. Have you ever met a person like this? They're like, I'm so lonely. You'll never all the things I've gone through. And then someone's like, dude, I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:14:09.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. They're like, no. You don't. And then they start splitting hairs.

[00:14:14.60] - Jeff Sherrod

Even you’ll be like, tell me. But then they’re like, well, you would never understand.

[00:14:16.29] - Gregg Garner

Yeah, yeah, “you don't know me. You don't get it.” Right. But but even when they do, I think part of issue is resisting the the integration that's necessary to overcome loneliness.

[00:14:27.60] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:14:28.00] - Gregg Garner

I don't think anyone overcomes loneliness by merely getting their story out there. I mean, think about, like, celebrities. Right? Celebrities who get quote fingers known their name's out there. Their ideas are out there. Their words are out there. And then, they commit suicide. And and they just felt so alone.

[00:14:47.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:14:48.10] - Gregg Garner

They felt lonely, that there's there's, a necessary integration that has to take place to remedy loneliness.

[00:14:56.00] - Jeff Sherrod

I think one of the things that's interesting is, like, if a student's hearing this and like, man, I'm gonna go to you know, because there's maybe this is not the best way to say it. You can help me if I'm saying it wrong, but there's the there's the maybe the physical part, the aloneness part. Right? Where someone's in a situation where they feel alone or lonely, and so I'm gonna go to a Christian college, get around more like minded people. That's a physical dislocation of moving to a place.

[00:15:19.79] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:15:20.39] - Jeff Sherrod

That won't necessarily while that's a part of dealing with loneliness, there's, like, a spiritual work of integration too. Right?

[00:15:28.50] - Gregg Garner

Yeah, so I think that process of integration, it it's not inherent to being a part of a group of people. Right? And it takes time. So, like, let's say that I go to a church. I'm going to a new church. It's like a church that's pretty lively, great music, great Bible teaching. I just love being here. If at some point, I don't integrate into that community of people through some kind of process that helps me join in the narrative, that helps me be a part of the work that's being done with this community of people, I'll still feel lonely, despite the fact that every Sunday or Wednesday, I'm in this group of like minded people who love God and who worship together. So the process of integration, I think, on the one hand, the the community itself has to have an intentional way of making consideration for how to integrate people.

[00:16:24.00] - Jeff Sherrod

Yep.

[00:16:24.50] - Gregg Garner

And on the other hand, the person who's being integrated has to recognize that that process is going to change you. And it's very difficult to maintain who you were and integrate into a body of people. But I think people still want that.

[00:16:42.29] - Jeff Sherrod

I think so too, yeah.

[00:16:42.79] - Gregg Garner

I think what people more want are what they get out of social media. Because on social media, you could be exactly who you wanna be and not change for anybody and get a bunch of people who are not committed to you on any level, but can like what you're putting out there and can comment affirmatively and even say, I resonate with what you're saying. But you're the proximics

[00:17:05.40] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:17:05.70] - Gregg Garner

To the association, I think, puts us in a position to even question whether or not reality is taking place.

[00:17:12.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:17:12.90] - Gregg Garner

Like, I am not sure that anything anyone does on social media really bridges the threshold of reality to the degree that it could have the soul effect that's necessary for us to ultimately feel a release from loneliness.

[00:17:28.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Because it's like if someone likes something, it's a little kick of dopamine. But it doesn't cross this I think you're right. The soul issue. For it to be like, we’re connected now.

[00:17:36.59] - Gregg Garner

It’s physiological not psychological

[00:17:38.29] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. That's right. That’s a good way of saying it. So I'm interested. So there's these two parts. One is there's the part of the participant, that's going to the college. Like, so maybe we'll just start with there. What have you guys seen someone's come to college? What are some great ways you're like, do that person integrate and here's some stuff that they did? Or this didn't work out so well, and I think the these are some these are reasons why. Well, maybe if we have, like, some criteria for, or cases.

[00:18:02.79] - Laurie Kagay

Well I think what, something Gregg just noted. Like, there has to be a kind of a willingness. Like, the community does a work to integrate students that I think has to be intentional and inviting. But the individual has to, you know, be willing to be integrated. Like, there has to be a, I don't know, an openness, participation, like a even, a sharing of who they are. Like, you know the people who come to events, but they, you know, stand in the corner or look at their phone the whole time. You know, all of those things are like, you're physically coming

[00:18:38.90] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:18:39.20] - Laurie Kagay

But there's not necessarily an opening of who you are that allows some sort of relational integration to take place.

[00:18:45.50] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:18:46.09] - Laurie Kagay

I don't know what to call that, willingness.

[00:18:46.90] - Gregg Garner

Cultural anthropologists will utilize terminology to highlight this process. If it's more inherent to the experience, enculturation is taking place. Because there is a culture that exists with any community of people that you're trying to integrate into. And you yourself, if you're not, by default part of that culture, maybe you're born into it, if that's not the case, there is going to be an element of acculturation that has to take place where the person is able to identify what are the manners and customs of this community of people that are different from what I had, that now in order to make sense of our association within this new context, I have to change a little bit towards, I have to acculturate towards. So for example, being from California, I can tell you I never looked at the weather channel growing up. Didn't even know there was a weather channel. Our weather people were like celebrity fun funny names. Like, I remember our weather guy's name was Dallas Raines. Right? Like, I remember one of the the ladies who was in the chopper who would, like, talk about, like, you know, weather and stuff. She was in a Christian rock band that did Kansas covers that I knew about. That's how I knew her. Anyways, it just wasn't a thing. Well, I moved out to the southeast, and people are all of a sudden talking about weather all the time in the in the weather channel. I was like, man, what's going on with all this stuff? And for me, like, I don't I because I never looked at the weather, the weather had no impact on what clothes I chose to wear. So the clothes I wore were pretty much the same type of clothes. It's gonna be jeans or shorts and a and a t shirt or a t shirt or maybe a short sleeve button up. But you go into a place with that now has the four seasons, and the like a place like Tennessee with the kind of unpredictability within the context of those four seasons. Like, Weather Channel becomes, like, something that's really helpful, and then it changes your style.

[00:20:52.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:20:52.79] - Gregg Garner

But imagine a person now who decides, I'm a hardcore Californian. I'm gonna wear flip flop shorts and a tank top, which was pretty common for, like, when when I'd be in Newport. That's what everybody is wearing. So they try and bring that here to Nashville in December. And they're gonna be in trouble. Right? So now they have to introduce to themselves new practices, and they're gonna feel weird about it. Like, a person who's always in flip flops all of a sudden putting on closed toe shoes, nevertheless, shoes that are gonna have maybe be a little more waterproof because of the rain or or the sleet and snow that they have to traverse. Like, it changes how you said so a person who's, like, so set on, I am defined by my culture is gonna have a hard time at culturating.

[00:21:36.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:21:36.70] - Gregg Garner

They're gonna have a hard time integrating into a new group. And what they're gonna want is to, make other people accommodate into them. But it becomes funny because culture is so geographical, even though people don't get it. It's like the axioms that emerge in a culture related to the geographical location are so telling. Like, they give you so much about why that person is the way they are. So when I moved here, all the people who were like from the Midwest, they loved when it turned into winter months because all of a sudden they could do layers. They always talk about layers. I love layers. And, like, to me, I didn't like the concept of layers. Like, it just why do I wanna put on so many clothes? This feels crazy. But, like, they are so pumped to talk about layers. And then, you know, layers obviously introduces a kind of a style. And so now you're having to, like, think through the kind of styles that now when a person puts on an external style, it creates an association. You're part of this. You're part of the people who wear the long trench coat type things in the winter. Oh, but you're a part of the people who just wear a jean jacket with a hoodie underneath it, and you're part of the people who just go with a a straight up a T shirt hoodie, and it's enough for you. Like, the different styles emerge. Now, again, people are probably listening to this going, what does this have to do with loneliness? So much of our understanding of belonging can be external and cultural. That's why even when you see groups of people from all over the world coming together in, like, a neutral location, they kinda find each other. Like, taking so many young people on mission trips, one of my first experiences with this was in Kenya, and I had a team out in the very rural area for maybe three, four weeks. And we finally went back into the city, and there was another team who was with another organization who was out in the rural area for a little bit, and they just ran to our white students, ran to them so excited. And then our students kinda, like, responded. And I was kind of like, woah. What is happening? And they were, like, hugging, and they're like, gosh. I haven't seen white people in a long time. Are you guys Americans? And it's like, yeah. Remember because and they were, like, jumping. Oh my god. It was it was so interesting, the the relief that they felt just because they saw someone who was like them. Now part of the biblical remedy for all of this is that we recognize we have have one Father and that we're created in the image of God, every single one of us. And that there is this need for us to get over what in the extreme we would call xenophobia, so that we can be more hospitable to the various versions of of peoples that exist. But where it gets really complicated is if you disavow the realities connected to the very visceral experience of being in a geographic location.

[00:24:26.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:24:27.59] - Gregg Garner

And that's where I think things get weird. Like, you have to be able to identify what cultural values exist on the deeper level, which we would call worldview.

[00:24:38.00] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:24:38.50] - Gregg Garner

And, we want our students to have a biblical worldview, which is why I love the community at our college because you have people who all look very different, who aren't even bothering to try and mesh style, and they're themselves. And then they Even when the winter months come, the ones who do come from the West Coast, they just look funny during that time, or the ones from the Midwest are loving their lives and letting the West Coasters borrow things. And then they're all giving each other's tips and tricks. You know? And then in the summer, they're helping the Midwesterners to detail and and recognize. Now's the time to get that bass tan. Bass tan. You heard these conversations.

[00:25:18.00] - Jeff Sherrod

Yes. I have.

[00:25:18.70] - Gregg Garner

But but, like, I think it's because they have been delivered from the need to be seen, heard, and known on that cultural level.

[00:25:28.20] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:25:28.59] - Gregg Garner

And instead on the deeper level of worldview, which impacts identity

[00:25:33.29] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:25:33.79] - Gregg Garner

They now have come to be seen, known, and heard as children of God, as disciples of Jesus. So if you go to a church or if you just go to a college and you think, Man, these people, I like their style. I like the way they are. That's never gonna be enough because it's it's merely cultural, and you're either going to have to assimilate or you're going to have to get them to assimilate you. But that it some of those things just won't work

[00:26:03.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:26:03.90] - Gregg Garner

Right, in in the different environments. So it’s a really interesting process when you have to play play it on that level. But if you recognize that genuine integration, the kind that God wants his children to experience in community happens on the deepest level of identity and worldview, then the word of God becomes the explicit instrument

[00:26:27.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:26:27.90] - Gregg Garner

That God uses to renew our minds

[00:26:30.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:26:30.90] - Gregg Garner

And and to help us understand even how to tell our story.

[00:26:34.20] - Laurie Kagay

Mhmm.

[00:26:34.50] - Gregg Garner

Maybe in the culture I grew up, I told my story because I was really all about my the culture I have, literally, the ethnic culture. Maybe for me, it'd just be, like, really important to have those tell signs that maybe I have, a Filipino flag hanging off of the mirror of my car, you know, rear view mirror. By the way, I have no issues with anyone doing this. I'm just saying that these are cultural markers, ways in which we demonstrate identity and worldview, and we help other people recognize it. And those things can be very beautiful. But in Christ, we've become citizens of heaven. We're born from above. We are no longer of this world. And even though we have those a I am still born from above and a citizen of heaven, and that is impacting my identity on the deepest level.

[00:27:31.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:27:31.50] - Gregg Garner

And I need that worldview informed. I need to know that that's where God really sees me and hears me and knows me. So the loneliness remedy is going to happen through the process of integration, but it's not a surface level integration a person will will get tired of it. They'll if it's just cultural, they'll wanna go back to Egypt.

[00:27:54.40] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Yeah.

[00:27:54.90] - Gregg Garner

They'll just wanna go home.

[00:27:56.40] - Jeff Sherrod

One of the things that you did this past semester, I know we're we're running out of time, but I think this was such a great example of how this worldview in and that comes from God's word informs our practice. But we had this community talk, and some of the students were relating. They're like, I'm having a hard time with friends, and some other people, you know, there was this whole friend thing.

[00:28:12.29] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:28:12.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Some of them felt different about quality of friendships. But you encouraged them. Well, I don't even know if it was an encouragement. I think that's probably too weak. It was a, hey. We're doing this.

[00:28:20.90] - Laurie Kagay

It was a charge.

[00:28:22.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Charge, yeah, to say, like, we're gonna do a forty day challenge, and, you know, they started this tech stream, and every day, they came up with this schedule. If someone else was gonna say, hey. I'm doing this. Come into my world and and do this with with me. I think that, to me, that stood out to me a number of ways. You could not charge normal college students to do this. I don't think so. I think people are, I'm not doing that. You know? So I think that it shows already that there's this value that has come from God's word. They're like, We know we value this. Now we can hold people accountable even to what we've seen.

[00:28:56.20] - Gregg Garner

I mean, Jesus made it clear. If you wanna be his disciple, the denial of self is the first prerequisite. And this denial of self is not like a self hatred kinda thing. It's first of all, you can't deny yourself you don't know. So you have to recognize. And all of us have a base culture that if we're not aware of, we we need to become aware of it. So the self aware person is able to become a disciple a more effective disciple of Jesus because now they're able to go, Oh, let me deny myself. And that comes out very practically, right? Like, I'm from Southern California, moved out to Tennessee. If I'm gonna go have fellowship with a pastor, like, we're gonna like, the first few times that happened, it was like Cracker Barrel or Chili's, and it or Applebee's more specifically. And it'd be like, the pastor would go get us two sweet teas. My lord. Like, that's a sweet tea isn't there's nothing attractive about a sweet tea.

[00:29:45.79] - Laurie Kagay

Agree.

[00:29:46.40] - Gregg Garner

I want nothing to do with sweet tea.

[00:29:48.59] - Jeff Sherrod

I’m from the south and it's too much for me.

[00:29:50.70] - Gregg Garner

There you go. But, like, that's the culture, and that's what was going on. And so I'd have a sweet tea for me. If I'm in India, it's gonna be the little tiny cup chives. Which is gonna have a a concentrated amount of milk and and sugar, and then like a frothy milk or not even frothy, like slimy milk top on it.

[00:30:11.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Pull it to the side.

[00:30:12.00] - Gregg Garner

And then but then, you know, you go to Uganda, and we're gonna have, in the villages, a tea without milk. And in Kenya, even if you're in the villages, they're making several ton of milk and that stuff. So all of our different cultures have these, like, different markers that say, you know, this is us, and this is what we're used to. But if you don't know how to deny yourself, you'll be the kind of person who goes, no. No. Thanks. I won't have a sweet tea. No. Thanks. I won't have that Indian tea. No. Thanks. I won't have that Ugandan tea, that Kenyan tea, that Salvadoran coffee, whatever it is, because somehow you were taught promotion of self was was like an effective way to advance what it was that God wanted. Now if you're not trying to be a disciple of Jesus, do whatever you want. If you're trying to be a disciple of Jesus, denial of self is gonna is gonna develop you as a human being. I think sometimes people mistakenly call this a cultured person. They'll say, this is this person is very cultured. You ever heard that?

[00:31:12.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:31:12.90] - Gregg Garner

But I think it's a mistake to say that because by by saying they're very cultured, I think what they're really trying to highlight is that they're exposed to many different cultures. But a person exposed to many different cultures can still reject the aspects of those cultures and never find a way to incarnate, or to integrate, or to contextualize and make sense in those cultures. So a disciple of Jesus has to deny themselves, and when the balut is passed around, you gotta sip that dead bird right out of there, right, Chris? Chris gave a thumbs up. I love reminding everybody that Chris is here. But it's I mean, it's it's just like balut, by the way, and you could look it up. It's a Filipino delicacy, and, it's it's prepared in different ways. But, ultimately, you're slurping a little bird out of an egg.

[00:32:04.20] - Jeff Sherrod

And denying yourself the whole time.

[00:32:05.70] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. But, yeah, to make my point, I do think that integration is going to require that kind of denial of self because you're going to be coming into a new self, a new person, and that new person is gonna be impacted by the various persons that God puts around you. And the more that he adds, the more you get to grow.

[00:32:28.70] - Laurie Kagay

Right.

[00:32:29.09] - Gregg Garner

And so, when you think of it that way, loneliness is finding its match, because, and by match, I mean, it's competition, the thing that's gonna overcome it, because now you're not just fixated on yourself and what you need and what you don't have. And now you're thinking about the beauty that exists in others and how having them in your life is is making you more, making you better.

[00:32:52.90] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. That’s well said. Sometimes I love doing the outro, but it it gives me this pressure to be like, alright. How do I summarize? Because I don't wanna take anything away. There's so many points that were here, you know, like this denial of self, the beauty that we get in integration, the fact that, loneliness and dealing with it is not just physiological. It's a spiritual way that we deal with this. There there's so much to say, and Christian colleges have a part to play. And not just helping our own students, but preparing, you know, students to help other people.

[00:33:22.00] - Gregg Garner

Yeah, in the various communities they'll find themselves in in the future.

[00:33:25.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Absolutely. So thanks so much for being with us here today. We love it when you guys get to listen. As always, we appreciate when you guys, like and subscribe and share the episode widely. If you ever want to reach out to us, please, feel the freedom to do so. The the link's in the show notes, and let us know if you guys have an idea for an episode or a topic you wanna discuss. Until then, we'll see you guys next time.