In this episode of the College Conversations podcast, host Jeff Sherrod sits down with Gregg Garner, president of The Institute for GOD, as well as Benjamin Reese and Laurie Kagay to discuss the importance of mission trips for college students. As a missions college, not solely a college putting on mission trips, they discuss the multidisciplinary nature of missiology, the value of long-term investment in communities, and the transformative impact these experiences can have on students. Guests share insights on what to look for when choosing a missions organization, emphasizing the significance of expert leadership and a focus on people over tasks. This episode provides invaluable guidance for prospective missions trip participants and their parents.

College Conversations Season 2 Episode 19 Podcast: Summer on Mission Abroad - Testing Tomorrow’s Global Leaders (Transcript)

[00:00:10.69] - Jeff Sherrod

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to College Conversations. My name is Jeff Sherrod. I'm here with Mrs. Laurie Kagay, Mr. Benjamin Reese, and President of the Institute, Mr. Gregg Garner. This is the podcast for prospective students and their parents who are looking at Christian higher education. We try to talk about all of it in this podcast. We talk about some of the things that affect you as students that are coming into college, things that you'll face while you're here. And I think maybe more than anything else, like, how to do college the right way. Like, you're interested in a Christian college. You wanna do it the right way. What are some of the things you wanna be looking out for? So in this particular episode, what we're looking at is that this is kinda timely. Greg, you and Ben are traveling soon, this summer. And so we wanna just to maybe just take a minute. We're a missions college. That's kinda like what we do. So we we try to talk about this topic, when we can. It's a topic that's near, I think, to all of our heart is is missions. But maybe just kinda starting us out here, we yeah. So all of our students I shouldn't say that. Not over ninety percent of our traditional students are traveling this summer, which is Wow. Which is kind of unbelievable. You know? That is It's it's pretty cool.

[00:01:11.09] - Benjamin Reese

So amazing.

[00:01:12.00] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Going all over the world. Then you'll be traveling with some of them. Greg, you'll be traveling with many of them even as you're going, this summer. So maybe just to kind of orient the listener to this particular summer, maybe, like, in the without being exhaustive, what are some of the things that you guys are gonna be doing this summer? Is that too much? No. Say it that way. Okay.

[00:01:30.40] - Benjamin Reese

Start out. Well, I'll be traveling down to Latin America, Central America, El Salvador. There are some students right that are down there right now doing some work and doing some projects down there that they've been planning for over the school year. So part of the educational journey that they go on is classroom time where they're thinking about development work, and then they actually get to put it into practice. And that's there's a big difference between those two. So there's a lot of lessons.

[00:01:56.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:01:56.79] - Benjamin Reese

That get learned along the way. And they are working with our people down there in El Salvador. And so I'll be traveling down there to both support our students, to provide some, support for the people that we have working down there, doing some bible studies and, but mostly getting to work with students and getting to see what they're doing, making sure that they're on track and that they're thinking through it in a biblically sound way and, encouraging them and doing all of those things that we're called to do. So Yeah.

[00:02:26.00] - Jeff Sherrod

That's great. So we like you mentioned, we have a campus in El Salvador. We work with That's right. Salvador nationals that are there all the time, of course Of course. And doing ministry. And then you're gonna meet some of the students. What are what are the things that when you're there, just generally, what are some of the stuff that you're often doing? If I a day in the life of mister Benjamin Reese, what do we often see in in El Salvador?

[00:02:45.50] - Benjamin Reese

Well, you know, I stick to the giftings that I've been given and what I've developed over the years of working for this organization. So I do a lot of bible studies and do a lot of teaching in that regard. I think providing that kind of biblical support for what they're doing. I think people need to know that what they're doing is in line with what the scripture says to do.

[00:03:09.69] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Mhmm.

[00:03:10.69] - Benjamin Reese

And even if they're doing what's right, but they don't know how to connect that to the bible or they haven't thought through that at least in a way, what they're doing is not as effective, and they don't get the benefit. Or and they lose motivation when we as as believers in Jesus, our motivation comes from knowing that we're doing what the father wants us to be doing. And that only comes through, knowing scripture. And so sometimes just helping students understand, how this connects to scripture, how this connects to the mission that we have as believers in Jesus, is something that I like to do. So they're like, you can see their motivation increase

[00:03:48.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:03:48.80] - Benjamin Reese

When you do that.

[00:03:49.40] - Jeff Sherrod

So That's great. That's great.

[00:03:50.80] - Laurie Kagay

I I think something to enhance the clarity with respect to what Ben is saying. I think someone could be listening to what we're talking about and going, yeah. That's good. Go to another country, teach the bible. But, there's there's much more than that going on. First of all, Ben has an education in missiology, so he has

[00:04:13.80] - Benjamin Reese

Mhmm.

[00:04:14.19] - Gregg Garner

An understanding of the cross cultural scenarios and and really often Mhmm. The contrast that can create significant obstacles, towards advancing whatever objectives we have. Yeah. So he he has that working knowledge. He's also bilingual. Mhmm. So he can speak Spanish, which is not something that you had prior to coming to school.

[00:04:39.10] - Benjamin Reese

That's correct.

[00:04:39.50] - Gregg Garner

This is something a tool you gained at school Mhmm.

[00:04:42.89] - Gregg Garner

So that you could more effectively serve the Lord, specifically in Spanish speaking countries.

[00:04:48.30] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:04:48.69] - Gregg Garner

And then he has familiarity with the area within which we're working. So he's familiar with the neighbors and the various people who are part of the everyday cast of what's going on. So it's it's not like, he's coming as a visitor, if you will. I think for a lot of people who do go on these trips, they're like, oh, oh,

[00:05:11.69] - Jeff Sherrod

oh, oh, yeah.

[00:05:12.00] - Gregg Garner

I'm going to El Salvador this summer. It's gonna be great. And they go as a visitor. They this is their first time. They're gonna teach in English. They're gonna totally mess up on a bunch of cross cultural poofas, and and and it's just it's it's gonna be a mess that the organization has to clean up that the person themselves may not even have Yeah.

[00:05:32.10] - Jeff Sherrod

They're gonna walk away and be like, great trip.

[00:05:34.10] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Right. But Ben's gonna go into this with the kind of knowledge that comes as a result of the type of education that we equip our people because we are indeed a missions college.

[00:05:47.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:05:47.39] - Gregg Garner

We're not a college that takes our students on missions. We're a missions college. We are equipping them with the capacity to do that apostolic work that Paul the Apostle felt so convinced God wanted to use him as an instrument to advance Right. Even to the Gentiles and and those who who didn't grow up hearing about a messiah. So, I I I think Ben is exactly correct. That is what he's doing, but it's important to think about all of what it takes for him Right. To be able to do that. It's it's it's no small thing. I I would say, essentially, if, it where most people are at, you'd have to send three people down to equal one then. You'd need to send down a translator. You'd need to send down a Bible teacher, and then you need to send down a cross cultural liaison Mhmm.

[00:06:39.60] - Gregg Garner

Who could help with the different forms of logistics and communications. But Ben could do all of those things. So that that makes him an incredible asset for a ministry. And because this is the kingdom of God where people are the asset Mhmm. If you're going to get involved in missions and you're going to be equipped for that very task, You wanna be equipped in such a way that you are indeed a valuable asset to the ministry that you're part of, and that is going to extend beyond merely having a technical skill. And I think for a lot of people, they're like, hey. I'm a doctor, and then I wanna go do Doctors Without Borders. Like, you can do that. Mhmm. And there's no problem with that. In fact, I encourage you if you're a doctor out there and you haven't gone on a mission trip, go do one of those. Yeah. But this is different than what we're talking about. We're we're talking about now a doctor who has their technical skill, but is also going to learn the the kind of culture and worldview that comes through a a biblical anthropology and a knowledge of scripture that is able to negotiate our our present circumstance with God's historical narrative.

[00:07:48.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:07:48.39] - Gregg Garner

There there's there's a development in that person that goes beyond the mere technical skill that they have to offer. Mhmm. And I think sometimes admissions, we've reduced it to the technical skill.

[00:07:58.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:07:59.10] - Gregg Garner

Hey. You wanna be helpful? You're an architect. Go be an architect out there. This is this is not true. And this is, in fact, in my opinion, this is a mission's fallacy. The idea that just because you have a technical skill means you're going to automatically be a benefit to the people that you're serving. This is this is not the case. I have actually seen it the opposite so many times that because the person had technical skill, but they lacked an education in anthropology, cultural anthropology, worldview, even the Bible, most importantly, the Bible Mhmm. They they end up creating a hindrance or or doing something detrimental because they, lack their eyes having been opened up or an education with respect to what mission should be in light of, the spirit of God and the life of Christ.

[00:08:48.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. I mean, because missions, I even when sometimes when people talk about missiology, like, alright. What is missiology? I mean, this is very much a cross discipline pursuit. It's it's language studies. It's communication. It's cross cultural. It's anthropology.

[00:09:01.79] - Gregg Garner

Methodology. It's you've got history. Yeah. History. Yeah. Research analysis. Like, there there there's it it's it's so multidisciplinary. We had to change our our our major just because I think you remember this.

[00:09:17.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:09:17.89] - Gregg Garner

Even with accrediting agencies, they're like, how are you gonna be qualified to teach this subject matter? You need to find someone who has a degree in missiology, and we're like, there are no degrees out there

[00:09:30.70] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah.

[00:09:30.89] - Gregg Garner

In missiology. You'd have to go, like, do a special study PhD in, like, Oxford and and, like, narrowly tailor it with a special permission just because it is so multidisciplinary. So I I I I do think that it's no small word, no small thing, but people use it like it it means getting a passport.

[00:09:52.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:54.60] - Benjamin Reese

We're putting on a camp for a week.

[00:09:56.50] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:09:57.60] - Benjamin Reese

You know, Sunday school camp.

[00:09:58.70] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. We do missions.

[00:09:59.79] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah.

[00:10:00.10] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Do missions.

[00:10:01.20] - Jeff Sherrod

I think that there's two cool things in that. One is that students get to travel with someone we're describing, you know, as Ben.

[00:10:07.70] - Jeff Sherrod

It’s like, oh, this resource, that's awesome. And then there's a vision for the student themselves. Yeah. You know they’re like, man, I'm I see where this is going for me too. Yeah. You know, both of those things kind of happen.

[00:10:16.60] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. The specific trip that Ben's taking, it's with upper, class students. Mhmm. And they, at this point, have already had somewhere between ten and fourteen weeks of experience abroad.

[00:10:30.79] - Jeff Sherrod

Yep.

[00:10:31.20] - Gregg Garner

And they've already had, like, highly facilitated experience. Yeah. A second lesser facilitated experience where they focused on, immersion into the culture and the language and the world view of the area they're in. And in this third installment, it's less facilitated and focuses on a project.

[00:10:52.10] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:10:52.50] - Gregg Garner

So they are now implementing a project that for, like, one of the students, it's connected to her pro dev experience of which she has, focused in food and hospitality. And now she's taking that, and her project is to help us launch a cafe in there in in the village. So years of experience for her working in food services and her, developing a fluency within that industry is now going to translate into something she can pragmatically share with an entire community. So this is this is no small thing. Just Yeah. Just to reiterate. She's not just going on a mission trip during college so that she could, facilitate a camp, which is not a bad thing. No. But if you're a college student, you wanna be able to do more. She is is going to leave a historical stamp in in this village by being a part of the team that brings about the first, coffee shop in in the entire area historically. It's awesome. It's a huge thing. And pumped.

[00:12:07.50] - Laurie Kagay

And, yeah, I think a culmination for students of how all these pieces fit together. Yeah. And you go through through the Bible, the Bible, the skills, All of it, and then taking it global is just incredible.

[00:12:16.79] - Gregg Garner

And then there's even another student on the team, for example, who's also there doing project, and his focus is with agriculture. But specifically connected to the cafe and pupusaria, he's having to help the local farmers figure out what vegetation is most marketable so that they can grow what it is the cafe in papuseria can actually sell.

[00:12:39.10] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:12:39.20] - Gregg Garner

And in that case, enhancing the local economy. Yeah. So there there's there's very specific things that they're doing that's all in line with our missiology and theology Right. That make it so much more than a mission trip.

[00:12:50.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:12:51.10] - Gregg Garner

At least as as we understand mission trips.

[00:12:52.89] - Jeff Sherrod

Right. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:12:53.50] - Benjamin Reese

And I I like how you mentioned historical aspect of it because we have been working in these regions for a long time. So students are stepping into a story line.

[00:13:01.89] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:13:02.50] - Benjamin Reese

And they can be assured that we are committed to continuing that storyline. So what they do is not temporary in the sense that a lot of missiological events are where they just come in and they go out.

[00:13:14.60] - Laurie Kagay

It's a one off ceiling.

[00:13:16.00] - Gregg Garner

And often the people who participate in those one offs don't know they are. Yeah. Yeah. They don't know that this is this is the only time this is happening.

[00:13:23.29] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:13:23.89] - Gregg Garner

And and they they have this misconception that, they're gonna be doing this all the time because I did it..

[00:13:29.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:13:30.10] - Gregg Garner

And it's it's just not the case. A lot of organizations don't develop the kind of infrastructure for sustainability when it comes to the different projects that are being implemented. Often, it's it's just an opportunity for that organization to either get the need met by having the project accomplished or to, enhance awareness and subsequently support base.

[00:13:52.79] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:13:53.50] - Gregg Garner

Because of the visitation. Outside of that, it's most organizations are are so, underdeveloped on the mission field with the institutional teeth it has into making a difference in the the communities that, projects are just these, like, one off things that nobody follows up with.

[00:14:14.60] - Benjamin Reese

Because when I was a student at the institute, I traveled down to El Salvador like these students are getting a chance to. And I gotta go to the place that we're working now when there was nothing on it. It was just a piece of land. Yeah. So it's special coming back there after all these years.

[00:14:28.20] - Benjamin Reese

And it’s just been an ongoing thing that that that concrete I mixed as a student Yeah. I still get to go back and visit now.

[00:14:35.60] - Laurie Kagay

Yeah. I get this. I've had the same thing in Uganda. Like, I remember us looking for a plot of land. Yeah. I also remember going back when we first got it, and Yeah. It was nothing. And and now it's this beautiful campus and continues to grow and develop. But, like, you remember being a part of the story, and it's so cool.

[00:14:52.70] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah. Same.

[00:14:53.29] - Laurie Kagay

They're able to do that as students.

[00:14:55.39] - Gregg Garner

I think you guys are hitting on something that is is not thought about by young people too often. And by the time older people think about it, it's often too late. And that is that you can be a part of something that lasts even starting as a young person by faith. Right. Let me try and say it another way. When for most people, their experience in college is something that will stay in the past. It's not something that's necessarily a part of what they're building into the future. Their college experience is giving them those venues for developing awareness or developing their skill. And then after that, they go back, even though verbiage is into the real world.

[00:15:44.50] - Benjamin Reese

Mhmm.

[00:15:45.20] - Gregg Garner

And then going back into the real world, they now go do something totally different, usually, almost all the time, disconnected from whatever it was that they were doing unless they got into some kind of internship and that internship is gonna lead to a job or something, which happens. But, now they go through different seasons. They go through the first job season, where, again, what they're building is experience. Mhmm. And and then they build that experience, and then they they develop their skill a little bit, and then they wanna go somewhere else. So they get another job. Next thing you know, they're thirty five. They've been at five different places doing the same kind of thing. Their resume looks good. But now they're start they they're starting to approach forty, and they're starting to think, now what have I built? What have I done? Mhmm. And there is nothing that anyone can build, that is, like, great and and worth building that doesn't take a good lifetime

[00:16:41.79] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Right.

[00:16:42.29] - Gregg Garner

To make it happen. And the sooner you get started, the better. And I do think it's an incredible gift for people to be able to say, man, I started on this project when I was a teenager, and I'm I'm still we're still building it. We're still going. Like, that's people don't get I think that's that experience would be so strange to most people. It it feels so strange. It would might feel bad. Might feel like that's, like, not a good thing. I don't think that's a good thing that someone would just be building the same thing their whole life, but it it doesn't take into account that such is what makes for the most effective projects Yeah. Is when you have someone who is intimately familiar with what it is that they're trying to develop. Nobody nobody's gonna be mad at Steve Jobs because what he had envisioned in the eighties culminated in an iPhone. Mhmm. You know? Like and then neither can they say, well, the iPhone was gonna be the iPhone regardless.

[00:17:41.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:17:41.40] - Gregg Garner

No. If he didn't take the journey sticking with Apple, sticking with those products, continuing to ask the questions and develop and develop and innovate and develop. And when you have to change venues all the time and and projects and peoples, It's really hard to do that. Mhmm.

[00:17:56.29] - Jeff Sherrod

It's tough. And, otherwise, it just turns into how can I grab as many almost despair to, you know, experiences from as many organization as possible in an effort to develop really just yourself? Yeah. And I think you're missing that that's the point that they're missing. Yeah. Like, those experiences that are all disparate, the time it takes, like, them was mixing concrete in faith Yeah. When you're a student. And who could have known, right, except someone be able to say, hey, man. Yeah. You might not see everything right now, but if you stick to this, what feels like something small right now

[00:18:27.00] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:18:27.40] - Jeff Sherrod

It's gonna pay this dividend. You're gonna come back years later. Now you have the story you can tell other people. Right? Like Mhmm. Yeah. You feel like you're doing something small right now, but there's, like, these stories you're developing. You're not just collecting experiences. You're developing as a person, the kind of perseverance and faithfulness.

[00:18:41.59] - Laurie Kagay

Well, and the I think the depth of relationships that develop. Because I talked to the student in particular about her trip to El Salvador, and she was like, been a little nervous and, you know, all this stuff. And she was like, but I got on a FaceTime call, and I just remembered these are my friends. I've been visiting, you know, these the same group of people since I was sixteen. You know, so precious because she went to El Salvador even before coming to the institution.

[00:19:04.09] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:19:04.59] - Laurie Kagay

She was slammed on the mission trip. 

[00:19:05.79] - Gregg Garner

Yeah.

[00:19:06.20] - Laurie Kagay

And so she was like you know, everything kinda calmed, and she just remembered, like, these are my friends. Like, I'm gonna keep going there for a long time. And so the depth of relationship you have, you know, is just precious.

[00:19:17.70] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. There really are two kinds of people, it would seem. They're the people who who, that you because they're task oriented, they wanna get stuff done. So they're like, I wanna put in this well, and I wanna put in this roof, and I wanna make sure this pond gets installed. And they feel very good about those things, which are good things. But we have to remember that, no such thing inherits the kingdom of God. Right. Like, the the inheritance of the kingdom of God belongs to those created in his image. And so you whether you, by quote fingers, nature are a a person of task or a people person, you have to become a people person because God's a people person. Right. And and you have to change your your metrics for success really do really do have to change. Otherwise, I really do think you'll be a person approaching fifty, and you'll have done a lot, but then you'll still ask what have I done. Yeah. Because you you can't see the living product. And I I think I think parents, they they they get that as their kids age. They realize, wow. Look at my kid. They're the product that's going out there carrying my name. Like, I've invested into them through our time, paid for their school, went to their games, went to their talent shows, like, did all this stuff. Now it's their time to get out there, and and you you you watch them and you pray and hope that they thrive. You can't do that, with projects. Like, you you can't you can't, like, put up a and then just go look at it go. Like, like, it it has no, you know, it has no capacity. But, and so even though she's doing that, you're right, it's about her friends. There are other young people, even people around her age that she's gonna be training and enlisting them into now a job. Right. That would bring a change to their community. So it, you do have to develop that people orientation. That comes from the spirit of God. Yeah. Because God loves us. And I I think I think it it makes a big difference for a young person to surrender into that. Because the sooner you surrender into it, the more time you have.

[00:21:33.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:21:34.09] - Gregg Garner

The longer you delay trying to figure things out, you you're like, well, I wanna be I wanna be thoughtful about this. I wanna be critical about it. I'm gonna evaluate it. Next thing thing

[00:21:45.20] - Jeff Sherrod

thing thing you know, you're forty, you're know, you're forty…

[00:21:45.29] - Gregg Garner

You're forty, you're know, you're forty, you're still critical. And you've you realize for the last twenty years, you've given thirty percent of your energy over to building what you're supposed to have been building the whole time. So it's like, get there fast.

[00:21:54.70] - Jeff Sherrod

A myth. Right? We have the all this time before we start doing stuff for god's kingdom Yeah. And it just passes you by.

[00:22:01.29] - Gregg Garner

And our culture really proliferates that that myth because it it it doesn't have, like, a collectivist consideration. Let me put that in another way. Like, for example, what what I believe the bible teaches is that you and I are are building on, something that was already laid, like, not only in the work of Christ, but but even going all the way back to Abraham and Moses. They already they already started building this thing. And then you and I have picked that up within our context. And now we wanna pass that down to these next generations of students, even our own kids. So they pick that up. But that's a collectivist consideration where people will aggregate lifetimes to accomplish something.

[00:22:52.50] - Benjamin Reese

Right.

[00:22:52.90] - Gregg Garner

Right? But our current culture is not like that. Our current culture, it's about what are you gonna do in your lifetime. And if you get anybody's help getting there, you're like lesser…

[00:23:06.00] - Gregg Garner

for having needed their help or been a part of their thing instead of just recognizing that we we we really do need each other and this stuff doesn't go unless somebody at some point says, I'll take responsibility for its future.

[00:23:21.00] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Yeah. Great. What about you? I know you're traveling a lot this summer. What maybe a snapshot. What are some of the things you got going on?

[00:23:27.20] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. So I've I've been I've been having to travel quite a bit in the last few weeks even. I just come back from Uganda, couple weeks ago, and I'm I'm heading to El Salvador this week as well. And, I'm setting things up, working with leadership. It's it's really important that, there is a shared vision for what it is that we're trying to do, as as an organization within the communities that we're working. And my job is to make sure that everyone shares that vision, and it is indeed a biblical vision. So I also am bible teaching, but these days, I find myself more on the, the call to action side of the bible teaching, like, helping people to pragmatize the concepts, helping people to turn them into, manuals for procedure and just other duplicable repeatable processes that, can give people a sense of duty and and purpose. So, I'll I'll be doing that. And then the the summer internship starts, just a couple weeks after I get back from that. So, that's about twenty five students from all over the United States, some of which go to the institute, and, some of which are are going to come to the institute. Others go to other colleges. But, we will be immersing ourselves into cross cultural activity in the Western Hemisphere and then traveling to the Eastern Hemisphere. And the the the point of summer internship is, develop awareness.

[00:25:10.20] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:25:10.59] - Gregg Garner

Like, just to get students to see things they've never seen before and then use the word of God as the filter by which they can interpret what it is that they're seeing so they can get God's heart for the world. And, it's it's always exciting. This year, I have, with me on the team, they had been nicknaming themselves junior leaders. I don't know where they got that from. But, I I think that there was a student last year they considered to be a junior leader, so they wanna be junior leaders. But we try to we try to be clever within the context of our organization as as people who are, like, qualified and and commissioned to do so. We'll we call them agents. Uh-huh. You know, development agents. And then, the summer interns, we call them recruits as as they're you know, we're we're checking them out, trying to use the intelligence organization motif. And, I I think, trainees is where we landed with k. With, these, quote, unquote, junior leaders. So the the cool thing about the these trainees is that they've done summer internship before, and they want, facilitated experience. But, specifically, they want it facilitated within the context of developing their leadership capacity

[00:26:21.20] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:26:21.79] - Gregg Garner

Which is a cool thing.

[00:26:23.59] - Benjamin Reese

How how many students are there? 

[00:26:25.09] - Gregg Garner

I think there's five. Group? Five. There's five in there. So these five are gonna be developing their leadership capacity by, going through the same summer internship, but being a bit more on the in the know. And then giving they'll have responsibilities that have them facilitating That's cool. What it is that they had facilitated for them. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be really good.

[00:26:45.90] - Jeff Sherrod

I think the thing that I wanna say here is that when you're doing these these trips, you know, which are, you know, five to seven weeks long Yeah. You don't you you don't as president of the college, you're not there for a couple days on the front end and then send it off with the trainees and then a couple days on the back end. No.

[00:27:02.40] - Laurie Kagay

He's there the whole time.

[00:27:03.40] - Jeff Sherrod

You're, like, there. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:05.70] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. I don't know how much longer I can keep doing that, but, yeah, that's true. I am I am there the whole time.

[00:27:10.79] - Jeff Sherrod

But I so I think that was one of the because, you know, one one of the things I do wanna talk on this podcast is just the benefit that happens when students are able to do mission with their professors, with the school administration, you know, like, just that see something that they don't maybe get to see all the time in the classroom or a different side of it at least. And, you know, when I met you twenty years ago, you were taking students abroad. You're still doing that this summer. So and and you have a ton going on. You know? There's this is so you're you're making this has been a priority for you, obviously, in five, seven weeks, you could get a lot of stuff done Yeah. In five, seven weeks. And I think the other thing to say is that you're taking these students with you, college students. You might even be more productive. I might be wrong with this. Maybe you can correct me. You might be more productive on the field without them. Yes. Yes. You have stuff to do. You have stuff to do here. You have stuff to do in the regions that we work with, people there. But, you know, this has been a priority for you. So maybe you can just speak to this for a little bit. Like Yeah. What what's what is why is this still twenty years later? Like, I'm gonna travel with them. I'm gonna be with them. Yeah. Working with the students.

[00:28:12.20] - Laurie Kagay

Why is it a priority?

[00:28:16.79] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Going back to Jesus's model for discipleship, it wasn't merely in the classroom. He wasn't just spouting off concepts and checking off whether or not his disciples understood them. He was bringing them into context and in various venues, he's highlighting things that they need to see. And then he's matching that with scripture and he's asking them questions. And that for me, it's like, if that's the technique that Jesus used for effective discipleship, shouldn't we be doing the same?

[00:28:56.00] - Laurie Kagay

Mhmm.

[00:28:57.00] - Gregg Garner

And, that's exactly why I'm still doing it today. I think it's one thing to learn in the classroom. It's a whole other thing to take those tools that you got in the classroom and learn how to dig the world, you know, just, like, be a be an archaeologist and figure out everything that's going on out there, asking questions and having someone who knows how to see, helping to see is important. I remember being a teenager going on these trips and and having so many questions, and and I was thankful that my curiosity and and my ability to communicate got me getting answers from people. But it it it definitely would have been better to have a guide. And on the trips that I went on, I had less of a guide into how God sees the world and what his word has to say about what we're witnessing and more of, like, chaperones who are concerned with their French press and, wanted to make sure that we, got to the various sites on time. Like, they they were more, like, logistics officers

[00:30:14.90] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:30:15.29] - Gregg Garner

With a with a a social anchoring so that the kids would like them kinda thing. Yeah. And and, I was I I was on mission. I wanted to know what was going on. So I think being able to be that for young people and help them to see, hey. You know what? This this this word of God, it it actually makes sense, and it can be played out. And it will give all the answers. Like, you you can you can look at all the problems that you're seeing in the developing world and the pain and the suffering that people are going through and find yourself with very common answers that usually require lots of money. And, those those are those are easy to come by. But the word of God, it introduces revelatory solutions that necessitate a sacrificial body of Christ to manifest. But when it does so, it's not subject to any economy. It's not subject to any individual's mood or attitude or, their direction, it it becomes something sustainable and healthy for the communities who receive and believe what it is that Jesus has to offer. And I think if you can effectively give that vision to a young person, it makes them better students when they come back.

[00:31:35.40] - Jeff Sherrod

It does.

[00:31:36.09] - Gregg Garner

It makes them better citizens within their own country.

[00:31:38.90] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah.

[00:31:39.09] - Gregg Garner

Makes them better participants in their churches, in their families. They just become altogether better human beings. In fact, I would say that if people are if anybody's having any issues right now, it's likely a big part of that is you're disconnected from the vision God has for you with respect to the advance of his kingdom. And the sooner you can reintegrate into that vision, the sooner you'll feel better.

[00:32:03.79] - Laurie Kagay

Yeah.

[00:32:04.09] - Gregg Garner

And and I think young people go on these trips, that that's that's what they feel whether they can communicate it or or not. Some of them can, but that's what they feel. They feel like, wow. I'm I'm I'm seeing God's kingdom, and I'm feeling it coming. And I'm part of it, and Yeah. I can see where it can go, and I'm excited.

[00:32:24.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:32:24.59] - Gregg Garner

And it's it really becomes something that I see nor your heard nor mind conceived. But that you can see God has, made a plan

[00:32:32.70] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. For For

[00:32:33.00] - Gregg Garner

For For us to to live out. So, yeah, I I keep doing it because and I don't I don't know. It's it's not an, like, a an efficiency thing like you brought up. I could do better without them. Yeah. The certain things slow me down, but the the the the mission again is about the development of people, not just the accomplishment of tasks. So I would only feel good about that if my mission was the accomplishment of tasks Right. Rather than the development of people. So taking people with you is is part of it. And and which is always interesting across the board because, people don't know themselves until they get into an environment where they are there's a lot of stress just due to the foreignness Yeah. Let alone the toll it takes on your body, time zones, food that's not comfortable for you, sleeping quarters that are not familiar, various, like, sicknesses that you can contract. All of that really test your person. And, sometimes I think people go on these trips and they they just like, one of their conclusions is I'm a weak person.

[00:33:45.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:33:46.00] - Gregg Garner

That’s just something to go, but I understand you. I am just a a weak person. But then it gets us, it gets to be challenging because it's like, God has an answer for all that. God has a vision for all that. But a lot of people do not interpret the scriptures in such a way where they make sense of it. I think some people would be like, well, you shouldn't have worn them out, and you shouldn't have brought them to those places. You should have taken care of them. You should have done it like a lot of shouldas Mhmm. Based upon the fact that the person discovered they're weak. Rather than recognizing God's way of doing things, he's like, okay. Pharaoh let my people go. They're mine. I've got a mission for them. Come on out to the mountain. They come to the mountain. He's like, here's who we are. This is what we're about. They're like, ah, this is tough. And, they end up staying in the wilderness. And they they of all the places to go, right, God didn't take them to a a a place that was comfortable. He took them to a place that was gonna stretch them and challenge them because he wanted to develop them into the kind of people who would do what it is that's in his word. And you don't become that kind of people without that kind of testing according to Deuteronomy eight. So without a knowledge of God's word, you would think you would think that, this kind of a mission trip that just shows a person how how weak they are would be, like, a waste of time. But, I mean, that was probably the revelation for a a good grand majority of Israel.

[00:35:07.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:35:07.90] - Gregg Garner

We were just going, wow. We we don't know how to depend on God. We're just complainers, and and we're we're having a hard time grasping the power of his word to create in a sustainability and to overcome, predictability of decay. Like, they're it's just hard. Yeah. So, anyways, I I I think I think you do you have to have a a knowledgeable person You You

[00:35:30.19] - Jeff Sherrod

You You do.

[00:35:30.59] - Gregg Garner

Present who knows god's word, which is why Ben's going with El Salvador because I I am just gonna be with him for, you know, less than a week. Ben will be with him longer, and he'll be able to to help facilitate that. But it's just a a a a

[00:35:44.30] - Jeff Sherrod

a a great like, often, like, when people are thinking about sometimes mission trips, they think more about the where than the who. Like, if if you were to rank, though, facilitation matters way more, than within where you're going. Because, you know, I I had gone on mission trips when when I was in high school and had had a fine time. But I went on summer internship in two thousand three, and I I told someone recently. I was like, there's probably not a month that goes by, maybe every two months. You know, if I'm like, but I I it's enough that I recall it frequently in my life. You know? I'm in I'm forty one this year. You know?

[00:36:16.50] - Gregg Garner

Like, it’s a long time ago I did this.

[00:36:17.00] - Jeff Sherrod

And it you know, one of the things that me and Laurie came across, even when people were talking about short term missions, they're like, they just don't have lasting impact. And I was like, did it for me. You know? Like, what and it wasn't we do I think we would might we might call what we do a little bit something different than short term missions, but that there was definitely an impact there. You know, like, change change my whole life, gave me a different perspective. 

[00:36:41.09] - Gregg Garner

Well, I mean, it's short term because it is a term and it's short. Right.

[00:36:43.80] - Jeff Sherrod

You know? So we're not…

[00:36:45.30] - Gregg Garner

We’re not trying to create reality, but there are some ways to do short term missions that are better than others.

[00:36:51.80] - Jeff Sherrod

Yes. Right.

[00:36:52.69] - Gregg Garner

Just like there are some interpretations of the Bible that are better than others. 

[00:36:56.40] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:57.59] - Laurie Kagay

Yeah. I talk to like, parents a lot will say, okay. Tell me about these trips. You know? Are they gonna be safe? Who are they going with? And a few of the things I tell them is, like, they'll never go alone. And with that, I mean, like, they're going alongside their friends, but they're also going with expert facilitators. So I think for those parents and students even listening now for them to witness, you know, the two of you. Like, this is the quality of leadership and facilitation that these students are getting on the field. But even some of our other regions, we have other alumni, you know, people who've been Yeah. Invested in these regions for decades

[00:37:29.90] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah.

[00:37:30.50] - Laurie Kagay

That will be there alongside our students.

[00:37:32.40] - Gregg Garner

And it's it's interesting too because you you hear like, I I get the safety question a lot, you know, for decades now. And, yeah, I mean, any anywhere you're traveling anywhere, even in the United States Mhmm. There are dangers that you you have to become aware of. I do think a more experienced facilitator, has more awareness as a result of, not just increased touches, meaning they've they've been in different situations and a variety and multiple, but also because, it's their job. Like, this is what they do. This is not a thing I volunteer for in the summers. Mhmm. This is what I prepare for. This is what I think about. So the kind of things that we're able to process that other people aren't, it it's I don't think people even know how to fathom it. Like, when any of our places that we go, I I could I I know exactly where we're at and how to get out of there without needing maps or a cell phone signal or anything like that. I could speak the language. I I could navigate the culture. I know I know who to contact. I know the the everyone from the political side of contacts that could help us out in an emergency situation all the way to the village side and the local, leadership. And and sometimes when I've seen a lot of these mission teams, you've got big organizations that let, like, twenty five year olds lead the team. Yeah. And then the twenty five year old takes the young people on a mission that they went on themselves.

[00:39:14.30] - Jeff Sherrod

When you're you’re right. 

[00:39:14.69] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Got got training a little bit, and now they're running through all of that. And that those types of trips depend largely on the predictability of the agenda.

[00:39:26.50] - Benjamin Reese

Mhmm.

[00:39:26.80] - Gregg Garner

Meaning, they're doing the same thing every week

[00:39:29.19] - Benjamin Reese

Right.

[00:39:29.50] - Gregg Garner

Over and over again with the same drivers on the same route. And that's how they that's how they increase safety or at least give the appearance of an increase in safety. Where in our scenario, there the variability is, can can be appreciated because of the ample tools of our facilitators, our capacity to be able to, contend with the variables and not have to worry about streamlining something because we we do know. And and that comes up, like, in simple ways. For example, we're we're doing a seminar in a local village, and it's going later, and it's gonna be darker. And, the the the drive home is is a little more challenging because of the dark. At that point, we're already getting our guys in the background to make sure that the vehicles we have have the appropriate lighting Mhmm. That we're we're getting information from the different village people about alternative routes. Like, we're doing all kinds of things while ministry is still happening. Right. And there's no stress, and nobody is upset about anything. And then we discover, can we or not? And maybe in this case, we discover we can't stay here longer. We've gotta go because there's not an option. It doesn't become a big deal, just what it was.

[00:40:40.69] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm. But But

[00:40:40.90] - Gregg Garner

But But if we find out, hey. We we we'll be fine staying here a little longer, and we can create this other route. And, this person vouched too. We've known them for twenty years. This is fine. Like, not a lot of organizations have that kind of on the ground capacity.

[00:40:55.19] - Laurie Kagay

Right.

[00:40:55.40] - Gregg Garner

But it's taken us decades…

[00:40:56.90] - Laurie Kagay

Mhmm.

[00:40:57.19] - Gregg Garner

To develop that, which goes back to my earlier point. Like, if if you're if you're, like, the adventure sinking wander lusting, person that just wants to go to different places and try them all out, You you you never you never really learn your craft. Yeah.

[00:41:11.00] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:41:11.30] - Gregg Garner

You just you never really learn where you're at Yeah. And how to genuinely navigate the the the people and the circumstance. So you you do have to, settle down and build and figure things out and invest yourself. And our facilitators, they they have ample knowledge of how it is that we navigate these areas. And and given some people who put themselves in a position of facilitator know less than others.

[00:41:38.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:41:39.50] - Gregg Garner

But, the the goal is to have everybody reach the level of competency where, the the risk that they're taking would feel like the same kind of risk they'd be taking graduating from college…

[00:41:52.90] - Jeff Sherrod

I was a missions major at my college, and they were like, alright. Find a mission trip, and go for it. You you know, there wasn't a lot of direction, given to it. So let's let's pretend someone's, like, in that situation, and they're like, alright. I gotta find something, you know, next year for a mission trip. If you were in if if I was asking advice from you or I'll open it up for you guys too, whoever. But if I were like, Greg, you know, like, alright. I gotta go on this trip. What should be some of the things that you think I should be looking for in an organization? Like, you know, there's a million organizations out here that we probably could go with. What are some like, maybe it's a couple of things. Like, at least pay attention to some of that.

[00:42:30.09] - Gregg Garner

Who's leading the trip? That's that to me is, like, right up there at the top. Like, you want somebody who is an expert in their field. You don't want you don't want someone who's, I don't know. We brought up architects earlier. An architect who's leading the team, but what he does on the day to day is and he's an architect.

[00:42:50.19] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:42:50.80] - Gregg Garner

That that seems like that's great because you're gonna be doing a building, but that's you're not gonna get the experience that you're thinking about. This person only knows how to be an architect. Well, he's a very talented architect. He knows the Bible. He studies it. That's great. It's not what he does day in, day out. In the same way that I've I've drawn things for architects, like draftsman type things. Like, that doesn't mean I'm an architect. But I can draw, and it and people have even used my drawings for house plans. That's real life. I'm telling the truth. Doesn't mean I'm a I'm a draftsman or an architect. I just have been able to do that. So, I'd look at who's leading. What kind of experience do they have? What what kind of knowledge do they have of god and his word and his mission? And, what am I gonna be gaining from being around them? The next thing I would look at is, how you're doing the mission, not what. What is too easy? Everybody's gonna have the same whats. We're gonna be visiting these vulnerable people groups.

[00:43:49.40] - Jeff Sherrod

Mhmm.

[00:43:49.69] - Gregg Garner

Widows, orphans, fatherless children, poor people. Like, everybody has very similar whats. It's it's the how. How are you going to visit them? Well, we're gonna come in and bring eight tons of food for these two hundred kids at this school, and we're gonna distribute the food. K. That's that's answering the how. They're they're they're and sometimes with certain trips, like, for me, I don't disclose much about summer internship. I don't tell the students much at all. So I'm really weighing heavy on them believing from past testimonies and other things that what we have is a is is gonna be a a legitimate, wonderful experience for them. But if they were shopping it, I'd ask I'd ask all the hows. Like, how how are we staying in the community? You might find out, well, you're not. We're just driving in in the mornings, gonna be there a few hours and drive back out because it's unsafe to stay in the community, and we're gonna be staying at a local hotel. Yeah. Like, that's that's part of the how. How are we doing evangelism? Well, we're gonna be doing crusades, and we're gonna get on stage, and we're going to, be preaching the gospel from the stage. That that's part of the how. That's different than, what we often do, which is, reach out through service and then have testimony. And then Get invited in people's homes. Invited in the people's homes. And once we get an opportunity to share with them why we're there, we do. Yeah. It it's but it's that's all part of the how. And so if you start learning to ask questions like how, you know what kind of experience you're you're gonna get. And I'd say the the next thing after that is who who else am I going with? Like, are these are these, are these people my age? Are these, people who are focused on their calling? Are these people who just look for a trip this summer? Or is is this, a a composite team of, like, stay at home moms and and construction dads and and their their kids who are coming with them. Like, what is who is else is on this trip? Yeah. I think that's a big one. It's important. And then I I would say, price price, you shouldn't look at too much. Price, there there's some margin there because it depends on what your facilitators are gonna wanna spend money on. But, for the most part, the cheaper the price, the less stuff you can do. Right. That's usually how

[00:46:17.69] - Laurie Kagay

it works. Sketchier the trip. Like, like, if it's too little, that that maybe actually be a concern. Yeah. But this is not one area where you wanna shop Yeah. Prices.

[00:46:26.80] - Gregg Garner

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:27.59] - Jeff Sherrod

Because you're funding the stuff that you will be doing.

[00:46:30.40] - Gregg Garner

I would say that a a normal trip, you know, you're on a a a trip that's priced pretty well that where every week costs anywhere between a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars.

[00:46:40.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Okay.

[00:46:40.80] - Gregg Garner

So if I'm gonna go to one week in El Salvador and if it costs between a thousand and fifteen hundred, it's pretty good. If I'm gonna go to Africa for, two weeks, it's probably gonna be on the fifteen hundred side of things, and it's gonna be three grand for for that two weeks of a trip there. And, you know, inflation lately with airline tickets, it might be between 12:50 and seventeen fifty.

[00:47:03.69] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:47:04.30] - Gregg Garner

But, nonetheless, that's that's probably a good good way to think about it with price. That it should fall in that window.

[00:47:09.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Right.

[00:47:09.80] - Gregg Garner

If it's less than that, you might be in trouble. If it's more than that, I don't know what they're spending it on.

[00:47:15.30] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. That's good. That's that's good. That's helpful.

[00:47:18.00] - Gregg Garner

I I think I think, the the last thing that I would wanna know is what happens after I'm gone. Yeah. Like, what what's the next thing? But those are some things.

[00:47:27.00] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah. Those are great.

[00:47:28.09] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Wait. Would you guys add anything as you guys must have

[00:47:30.30] - Laurie Kagay

I think those were great.

[00:47:30.90] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. I

[00:47:31.69] - Laurie Kagay

I I was gonna say, like, it kinda goes along with the last one. Like, the longevity of the organization's involvement in a community. Not that you can't get involved when something's fresh and new. There's excitement there and everything. But you you wanna know again the answer to that question, what happens after I'm gone?

[00:47:49.50] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah.

[00:47:49.80] - Laurie Kagay

Like, what is gonna continue, versus be kind of that pop up or one off scenario. But I thought they were great.

[00:47:57.50] - Gregg Garner

That's good.

[00:47:58.00] - Benjamin Reese

Yeah.

[00:47:58.19] - Jeff Sherrod

That's helpful. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for this, guys. That was that was excellent. For you guys who are listening, one of the things I maybe wanna end with is Greg made this comment that if you feel like you're having a hard time, one of the things that you can do, maybe the thing that you can do to, remedy that is just get on mission with Jesus. I'm not saying it the same way you said it, Gregg. 

[00:48:17.80] - Gregg Garner

But I think you said it great.

[00:48:18.90] - Jeff Sherrod

You know, it's like sometimes we we wanna try to do everything else except for what God wants us to do, and and God is interested in the nations. He has been. This is not just a New Testament concern. This is a biblical concern. This is part of our responsibility as God's people to be concerned with the nations. So, yeah, if you guys are listening to this, you're like, man, I wanna do that. You know, check us out. We'd love for you guys to come on mission with us if that's a possibility. You can come to the college website at the institute for, god dot e d u and read about summer, summer internship, or they can go to what's the other website, Laurie?

[00:48:49.69] - Laurie Kagay

G o d s I dot org, which is the GOD summer internship.

[00:48:52.80] - Jeff Sherrod

Yeah. Absolutely. Until then, please share the episode with other people. We love it when you guys, share it. This work that we're doing, it means the world to us. See you guys next time.