S2E22: College Conversations Podcast - “What I Learned On Mission Abroad & Why I Want To Go Again! - Part Two” (Transcript)
Summary: Join Institute for God professors Jeff Sherrod, Laurie Kagay and headmaster Gregg Garner as they discusses with student, Jacob Oliveira, his summer internship mission trip to Uganda, emphasizing intentional planning and transformative impact on one's relationship with God. Jacob highlights the importance of being present, aware, open, and mature in serving others effectively. They reflect on the impact of Bible studies in shaping perspectives and guiding actions. The conversation also touches on the importance of teaching God's word and partnering with Him in sustainable work.
S2E22: College Conversations Podcast - “What I Learned On Mission Abroad & Why I Want To Go Again! - Part Two” (Transcript)
[00:00:11.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Hey everyone, and welcome back to College Conversations, podcast about all things related to Christian higher education. My name is Jeff Sherrod. I'm here with president of the Institute for GOD, Mr. Gregg Garner, and Mrs. Laurie Kagay, who runs all of our marketing and enrollment at the institute as well. And today, we have us with us as a guest, mister Jacob Oliveira. Jacob's a student. Jacob, what year are you going into?
[00:00:30.80] - Jacob Olivera
I'm going into my third year.
[00:00:32.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Third year. Awesome. Gonna be a junior next year. And so for this particular, podcast, I'm pretty excited about this. We have some we have a current student, and we're gonna do a a a few of these in a row, actually, over the next couple weeks, talking to current students and really asking about, like, hey. Let's talk about your trips. This is something that we do as a as an as a school. All of our students travel abroad. You're going again this summer in some days. Your trip's about to start. Right? We don't exactly know. You don't you don't know, but the rest of us know. But, yeah. So you're about to go out again. So what
[00:01:02.20] - Gregg Garner
That sounds mysterious.
[00:01:03.39] - Laurie Kagay
It does.
[00:01:04.00] - Jeff Sherrod
There is some mysterious, but I don't think it's weird.
[00:01:07.40] - Gregg Garner
This is an intentional effort that Jacob is fully aware of. And it's because there is a flex period between when his mission starts and when he actually departs to the destination region.
[00:01:24.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Mhmm.
[00:01:25.20] - Gregg Garner
And in between that is an unsaid amount of days of training. And part of it is just to keep the person present. And we do a digital detox during these trips, so they are disconnected from phones and such.
[00:01:41.00] - Jeff Sherrod
I think that’s a great clarification. Yeah. People were probably like, “You're going abroad. You don't know?” So, yeah, what we wanted to do is just, I think, really just talk about the sense of adventure of serving the lord abroad.
[00:01:53.29] - Jacob Olivera
Yeah.
[00:01:53.40] - Jeff Sherrod
You know? Like, what did what did God do in your heart the last time that you traveled? You know? What are some things you're looking for? We're gonna ask you some questions. You know, I'm sure, Gregg, you can give some you're the architect for many of these trips and and leading them and designing them. So given some even some rationale behind it, I think would be fun too. So maybe, Jacob, just to start us off, tell us what you did last summer in, like, the most broad way. Where'd you go? What were some of the things you were involved in?
[00:02:16.40] - Jacob Olivera
So last summer, we went on an internship to, to Uganda. We stayed there for about four weeks a month, maybe a little over, maybe a little under. Time kinda just… we kinda like I lost track of time. We there for a bit. But, yeah, we did we did so many things. We've taught at a school called Saint John. We visited a prison in Naka, Angola. We had, like, a youth event, youth bible conference in Entebbe, and then we spent a lot of our time on our campus in Kabonge with our cooperatives just kind of, like, doing tasks and, like, kind of revamping it. We added solar. We did some landscaping. We worked on the farm. We did a lot of things.
[00:03:03.50] - Jeff Sherrod
That's a lot. Yeah.
[00:03:04.80] - Laurie Kagay
That’s a lot to fit into a few weeks.
[00:03:05.90] - Jacob Olivera
A lot of bible study too.
[00:03:07.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. That's awesome. As you were so last year was the first year you traveled with the college. Right?
[00:03:12.40] - Laurie Kagay
Had you traveled before that? Not for Internationally?
[00:03:15.59] - Jacob Olivera
Not for missions, but I had the last summer, I went to Lima, Peru with my family because my dad's from Peru. And so we just kind of, like, wanna see it. That's not where he's from specifically, but it costs too much to actually go to his hometown.
[00:03:29.69] - Gregg Garner
So Lima is close enough.
[00:03:33.40] - Jeff Sherrod
That's that's great. So traveling with college for the first time, maybe I'll just start with, like, what what was something that maybe most surprised you about your experience?
[00:03:42.09] - Jacob Olivera
How every detail is planned. Like, every detail was planned, and it was wild. I'm not, like, that type of person. So I was like, sometimes I like going with the flow. Like, the type of person to, like, have every single thing planned, like, to the tee. But so I'm kinda kinda, like, go with the flow. We'll see what's happening. So in a way, that was fine for me because, like, we kinda didn't know what was happening either. It was also that, like, intentional, like
[00:04:07.40] - Gregg Garner
So it felt spontaneous to you?
[00:04:09.00] - Jacob Olivera
Yeah. But feeling spontaneous, but also knowing that, like, they thought of this. Like, they thought of every little detail. And I'm just like, this is why especially for boot camp, which is, like, that training period. That's like, dude, like, they thought of the little notes to hide here. They thought of, like, you know, the reason why some people got to go to the booth or some people had to sit in the seats or, like, things like that. And I'm just like, wow. There's, like, so much so many different lessons to learn preparing us for, like, what we're actually going to encounter. And then, like, those lessons actually translating to our experience in Africa. Like, they matched up so perfectly. And it's like, that's the intentionality that, like, surprised me.
[00:04:54.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Gregg, you've been doing this for a long time. Like, I took an internship long time ago. Yeah. I won't say how long ago, but long time ago.
[00:04:59.19] - Gregg Garner
Twenty plus years.
[00:04:59.89] - Jeff Sherrod
Twenty plus years, you said it. I'm so old.
[00:05:03.39] - Gregg Garner
How do you think I feel?
[00:05:04.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Right. But I would I would've said the same thing. Right? It's like guys, you don't believe what they would've done. There was, like, things we had to go, and we stayed in this one room for a long time, and I thought we're gonna move into another room, but we didn't move into another room. So maybe if if people are listening, like, what's some of the thinking behind behind that?
[00:05:19.89] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. So the idea is that a person will learn something faster and, I think, more effectively if you're engaging the entirety of their person, especially if engaging the entirety of their person puts them under a regulated amount of stress that requires them to make sense of what it is that they're doing. So the first thing to do is to put them in a state where they are making their entire person aware of the need to open up their consciousness. Because typically on the day to day, we're so used to our environments where we go in, go out. We're not we're not as aware. Our consciousness isn't as elevated. So in this scenario, especially if we're gonna take people into foreign environments, which, can be dangerous. It's important to have young people on the next level of alert, and you don't wanna do that by just telling them all the stories that can create fear. You wanna do it in a positive reinforcement way, which actually in, my philosophy comes from becoming, a good Bible reader. You guys are both, theologians, biblical sized people. You know that if you're gonna read the Bible, you can't do it if you're not a very conscious and observant person who's looking for the intentional devices of these inspired by God literary personnel who put the whole thing together.
[00:06:43.10] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:06:43.39] - Gregg Garner
And, I think we learn to read the world like that. And that's what I want the interns to develop. So getting them there, it's just, like, making sure that everything is designed in such a way that the the product we're looking for, which is a very, aware young person who is not intimidated by what tomorrow has to hold because they recognize the present moment has enough to occupy the totality of their senses.
[00:07:17.60] - Jacob Olivera
Mhmm.
[00:07:18.00] - Gregg Garner
And entering into that freedom, it's a major goal for the effort. That way because I'm already so encouraged by what you're saying on so many levels because the way you're talking is exactly what we hope for. Like, for you even to lose track of time, three weeks, a month. I'm not sure. That's beautiful. Especially in the society that we live in, we all know it's very time oriented, and we're very conscious of it. But there's something, wonderful about not having to worry about time in that way. So it while it's not, like, a realistic and indefinite way of being in the world, it's definitely, a great opportunity for any person to experience. It's that total disconnected detox Yeah. Where you're just having to be in the moment. And if and I'm sure you remember this. Like, if you decided to not be in the moment, it was worse. Like, as much as the moment could have been, like, because we put them in intentional positions to be bored. Right? Hey, guys. Be over here at 05:00 because we're gonna start this thing, and we know we're not gonna do anything till, like, 05:45. So they're sitting there for forty five minutes, which happens in the world. Right? But most people don't know what to do with those forty five minutes. And then challenging them and getting them to think about how you effectively use forty five unplanned minutes. At first, they're frustrated. They're like, why isn't this starting? By the end of the trip, they're like, this is a gift. We've got forty five minutes right now. We're gonna use this in whatever way they found to be beneficial to the moment. So, the it's set up in such a way that a person becomes conscious enough to receive the gift of life and to to actively participate in it rather than passively letting it go by.
[00:09:07.89] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. I think that's a great way of saying it. And I think that, Jacob, maybe you can speak to this too. Like, when I did internship forever ago, I remember those moments of there was a realization. I was like, oh, this is intentional.
[00:09:18.00] - Jacob Olivera
Mhmm.
[00:09:18.50] - Jeff Sherrod
And then you start looking for those things.
[00:09:20.10] - Jacob Olivera
Yeah.
[00:09:20.39] - Jeff Sherrod
Like, what else is intentional?
[00:09:20.79] - Laurie Kagay
And kinda the next phrase that comes to mind for me is, “pay attention.” Like, that even becomes a refrain that interns say to each other. It's, like always pay attention. Pay attention. I mean it’s how we should read the Bible. It's how we should read the world. It does keep you safe. It keeps you present.
[00:09:36.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:09:36.70] - Laurie Kagay
But, yeah, just always like, that's kind of it comes once you realize, okay. Everything's intentional, then they refrain.
[00:09:42.60] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. I found that it, like, changed my relationship with God. Because I was like I walked out the end. I was like, God's doing so many things I am not paying attention to. And I am I am, like, just living life, and I'm gonna change this. I'm gonna God is acting in this world in in a ways that are surprising and sometimes subtle. But if we can notice those things
[00:10:01.60] - Laurie Kagay
You have to look up. You know?
[00:10:03.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Look up. Yeah.
[00:10:03.89] - Laurie Kagay
Or look with clear eyes. You know? Be open.
[00:10:06.60] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah, yes. You you came back. You've done so you've done a year of school since your last trip. What would you say has been, like, maybe a difference between your first year, second year, and how does your trip influence that second year?
[00:10:17.60] - Jacob Olivera
I think a lot of the considerations I'm making, like, occupationally have changed because one of the things I know, like, that personally I've, like, wanted to figure out was how I can translate, like, my skills, how I can translate my person into someone who can serve others. Because I know in order to serve others, like, I gotta be somewhat somewhat, you know, ready. So I gotta be, like, prepared. I don't wanna say fixed. I don't know if fixed is the right word.
[00:10:47.00] - Jeff Sherrod
What do you mean by fixed?
[00:10:48.39] - Jacob Olivera
Because we all have our own problems. You know? Like, we all have, like Yeah. Our things we gotta work out.
[00:10:53.79] - Gregg Garner
I think you’re saying that God can still use a a broken vessel.
[00:10:57.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:10:57.10] - Jacob Olivera
I think mature is the word I'm trying say. Yeah. I gotta be matured. A mature person.
[00:11:01.79] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, a mature person. So fixed would be something similar to, like, perfect.
[00:11:04.20] - Jacob Olivera
Yeah.
[00:11:04.60] - Gregg Garner
You don't have to be perfect or fixed, but you gotta develop. You gotta mature.
[00:11:08.10] - Jacob Olivera
Yes, exactly. And so in that process of, like, development, I know, like, I gotta have practical skills that I can use to serve other people, whether they're be maybe here in Nashville, whether they be in Uganda, or whether they be in the Philippines where I'm going to summer, or wherever. And so it was one of, though, your Bible studies that we did regarding, like, the duality of humanity being both spiritual or celestial and terrestrial. And I had been grappling
[00:11:39.10] - Gregg Garner
That come from Genesis 2:7.
[00:11:41.20] - Jacob Olivera
And I have been grappling, like, fighting with, like, oh, what do I wanna do, like, with a job? I'm doing landscaping. I'm working, you know, I'm working at the academy, which is the K - 12 here. I'm working at Case, which is a after school program. But I don't know exactly what I wanna do, and a little bit of me was, like, resentful towards working manual labor jobs just because, like, racial connotations and expectations and things like that. But the way mister Garner phrased it, and it was so it was he was like, these two things are equally important. And then you literally use those two examples. Like, the like, a celestial job would be, like, education, or while a terrestrial job would be something like landscape, and I'm like, okay. And then after that, I move into landscaping. These we get our task for the day. He's like, Jacob, Walt, Victor, you guys are gonna go with Nusazi. You guys are gonna do landscaping. I'm like, okay. And so I'm further going into this, and I'm thinking I'm like, I need to embrace both the terrestrial and the celestial side of myself in order to, like, be complete, in order to be more matured. And so, like, going into the second year, I'm like, I'm zeroing in on what I wanna do. I'm zeroing in on the, like, the professional I wanna become, but also, like, allowing God to, like, come into that come into my work.
[00:13:05.79] - Gregg Garner
That's so awesome because what you're doing is you're helping our listeners to understand that a trip like this coupled with your education, that trip becomes this venue of discovering who you are in Christ in such a way that, you're it's like it's designed to give you this opportunity.
[00:13:29.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Mhmm.
[00:13:29.50] - Gregg Garner
Right?
[00:13:29.70] - Gregg Garner
And I think for a lot of people, when they go on mission, they feel like the purpose of the mission is to do the stuff on the itinerary. But the Bible teaches us that if you wanna know what God's working on, we are his workmanship.
[00:13:43.50] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:13:44.10] - Gregg Garner
And that there's good stuff for us to do. He created us to do those things that he prepared them beforehand, then we should walk in them. But nonetheless, he's working on us. So the way that we design trips is with the focus that gives you the venue to let God work on you. And at your age and where you're at in school, this is a fantastic opportunity for you to ask those questions like God mature, continue to mature me into the person that can serve you and serve others with legitimate skills that not only reflect the the spirituality that I've come to receive, but also the reality that though I'm not, of the world, I'm in it. And I have to operate in it. That that's a really good way to put it, and I think that's a really good way to use this trip.
[00:14:27.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Yeah. I one of the things I'm interested in is you mentioned you guys do a lot of bible studies. So maybe you're if your people are listening to this, give them a sense of what that looks like.
[00:14:37.60] - Jacob Olivera
I think we did them at least, like, three times a day. Three times a day. They'd last at least, like, forty five minutes each, maybe. Maybe I'm over exaggerating. I don't know.
[00:14:50.29] - Gregg Garner
I think your under.
[00:14:52.10] - Jacob Olivera
Cool, yeah.
[00:14:53.20] - Laurie Kagay
It's rare you do forty five.
[00:14:55.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Okay.
[00:14:55.39] - Gregg Garner
They're typically maybe somewhere between seventy and a hundred minutes
[00:14:59.29] - Jacob Olivera
Okay. Cool. Yeah. They were they were mostly…
[00:15:03.39] - Jeff Sherrod
It’s a good test, man. It felt fast.
[00:15:04.70] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. It's not bad.
[00:15:05.89] - Jacob Olivera
Oh, they were sick. Yes. They were so dense. They were so good. But they were following the the creation narrative track. We were studying Genesis one, two, and a little bit of three. And then we ended with, a part in the book of John. And it was Mr. Garner was discussing time and growth and, like, being human along those lines. And there are there were things to do with, like, our learning curve, there were things to do with being male being made male and female. We're kinda just going back to how god designed us and created us.
[00:15:41.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Gregg, you know, for many of these students, like, many of them are coming to this trip. Not all of them are coming out of Bible college. Some of them are coming straight out of high school, but many of them just finished years, sometimes couple years of Bible college. And then you're like, alright. We're gonna spend a long time doing Bible studies. Like, what what what's the rationale if if you're explaining some of that?
[00:15:59.00] - Gregg Garner
So I think that because there's a goal to increase a person's awareness
[00:16:05.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:16:07.20] - Gregg Garner
Sure, you can treat them like they're a tourist and you're the tour guide and say, hey. Look at this. See what that is? It's this. And then look over here. That's what this is. It's this. The tourist only knows what it is the tour guide is saying. And now the words of the tour guide have actually framed their what it is they've seen.
[00:16:29.10] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:16:29.70] - Gregg Garner
So take for example, a tour guide could take you on, I don't know, let's say it's a safari tour. Right? And we're looking at the giraffes all gathered over near a tree. And the tour guides like, these giraffes annually come to this tree because it's their ancestral tree. And it just gives you this whole narrative. You're now subject to interpreting that those giraffes experience around what it is that those words have framed. Right? Now the person could be completely wrong because they're a person.
[00:17:08.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:17:08.70] - Gregg Garner
The real issue could be they're all around that tree because one of the giraffes, the baby one is stuck in the little location, can't get out, and they're all trying to figure it out. This is no ancestral tree. This tree is an enemy, and soon they're gonna knock this tree over to get that little giraffe out of them. But I think for many people, when it comes to the world that we see, it's not God's word that's framing how it is we understand it. It's some tour guide, whether it's the media or, the influence of, people in our lives, whether we call them influencers or they're just friends and they're coming to know what they know. They're speaking in such a way that they're like, these are the ancestral homes of the giraffe. When when the difference between them and God is God is not a man that he should lie or the son of man he should repent. God is God. God is not someone who is trying out his wisdom. Right? This is the God who created the heavens and the earth, and it's still here.
[00:18:07.29] - Laurie Kagay
Mhmm.
[00:18:08.09] - Gregg Garner
Kingdoms have risen and fallen, but this kingdom that God created, the heavens and the earth is still rocking.
[00:18:14.90] - Laurie Kagay
Yeah.
[00:18:15.40] - Gregg Garner
And maybe you don't understand that kind of theology yet, but think about it for a little bit. It won't be it won't be hard to get. But the key is in understanding the first chapter of Genesis as speaking to the exilic community and contending with or putting together a polemic, with respect to the Babylonian creation narrative, which of course has, a conquering king organizing society and creating a temple within which his image existed dwell. Read Genesis one again and and think about that. Anyways, if we can get these students, the word of God written on their hearts in such a way that when they start looking at the world that we're taking them to travel on, and now it's not a tour guide's words, but it's God's words. Now God's word is framing the reality that they're observing and he's telling the truth.
[00:19:07.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. That's right.
[00:19:08.00] - Gregg Garner
God, they're in him. There is no lie at all, no darkness at all, first John one. So, that's why. Like, it's not gonna be enough for me just to tell them my testimony or give other people's experiences or let the people in the community there. Those are good things. They're not bad things, but it's not enough.
[00:19:27.29] - Jacob Oliveira
Mhmm.
[00:19:27.70] - Gregg Garner
But what would and will be and is and always will be enough is the word of the Lord.
[00:19:33.29] - Jacob Olivera
Right.
[00:19:33.79] - Gregg Garner
And so if we can get that word of the Lord in these guys I mean, even the way he's talking about now, he's been impacted.
[00:19:39.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:19:41.70] - Gregg Garner
He's remembering the scriptures. He's not remembering he's it's like he's saying a mister Garner taught, which is way better than mister Garner said, and then he gives some, like, you know, wisdom piece that I communicated. Instead, he's like, mister Garner taught from this scripture in the Bible, and now he he reads it for himself. And now he looks at the world, And now he probably looks at people and goes, man, that like, I'm concerned with that person holistically now. Maybe before he might have just been concerned with their spiritual well-being. Like, they're in complete poverty, but at least they're going to heaven. That's enough for some people. But when you read the bible and you really learn about God's concern for human beings, like, when you hear Jesus tell the disciples, you feed them
[00:20:22.40] - Jacob Olivera
Mhmm.
[00:20:22.70] - Gregg Garner
It it changes.
[00:20:23.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:20:24.00] - Gregg Garner
How you see situations, and you become responsible as a disciple for Jesus. So, again, that's why.
[00:20:28.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:20:28.79] - Gregg Garner
Like, if you teach the word, now you're doing something sustainable. Now you're partnering with God and what he builds, what he's doing, and that that's I love doing that.
[00:20:36.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. There's so many questions I wanna ask you, Jacob. I know we're we're we're running low on time here, but maybe you could just say on a scale of 1 to 10, how are you feeling about the summer that's about to go out? Heading back to where where are you headed to this summer?
[00:20:47.70] - Jacob Olivera
I'm going to the Philippines.
[00:20:48.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Going to Philippines. Awesome. How are you feeling about it?
[00:20:50.79] - Jacob Olivera
On a scale of 1 to 10, I'm feeling I'm feeling, like, maybe an eight or a nine.
[00:20:54.79] - Gregg Garner
Eight or nine in terms of, like, excitement?
[00:20:56.29] - Jacob Olivera
Yeah. Excitement.
[00:20:57.59] - Gregg Garner
That's awesome. And maybe before we we sign off here, you you could tell us a hope you have for this this trip.
[00:21:05.50] - Jacob Olivera
I think when I can whenever we were in Africa, the Lord did regarding, like, the occupation and everything and, like, building up my skill sets, it was very broad. And, like, I'm gonna I'm still gonna trust it. I think, like, the lamp being at our feet, like, we can't see too far ahead, but we can see the next steps
[00:21:23.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:21:23.50] - Jacob Olivera
Which is something that is helpful. And so with with that being very broad thing, I was like, alright. That's fine. But I do wanna, like, lean into that more and see, like, how much further can the lord develop me? How much more further can I be, like, even, like, broken by seeing what there is, like, to see the poverty, the darkness, and everything. But then through that brokenness, still being able to see, like, hope and, like, these these are the people that God's concerned with.
[00:21:49.79] - Gregg Garner
And and by broken, to be clear, you don't mean, like, damaged?
[00:21:53.09] - Jacob Olivera
No. No.
[00:21:53.70] - Gregg Garner
You mean, like, broken in like a glove or broken in like a horse gets for the purposes of being used. That kind of broken? Right?
[00:21:59.90] - Jacob Olivera
Yeah.
[00:22:01.00] - Gregg Garner
I think it's important to clear that up. Right? I it's it's a buzzword right now. I don't know if you guys pay attention to this on media. It's like a pretty big buzzword for for people to talk about being in a broken state and then finding other broken people. That it's like, some people wanna remain broken. Some people wanna get back. Like so I wanna make sure that we're utilizing the term the way you intended it. Okay. Is that fair? Yeah. Did I use it right there? Excellent. Excellent. I think that's admirable. That’s an awesome it's a great, great hope.
[00:22:28.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Absolutely. Jacob, thanks so much for joining us. Today. Hey. If you guys out there listening, thanks so much for joining us today. Like and subscribe. It really does mean the world to us. Share the episode, share the show with others. If you guys had do you have questions or comments that you would like for us to address, send us an email. The email link is in the show notes. Until then, see you guys next time.